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Lottery Pick for Jazz? Explaining the Knicks to Jazz Pick

January 29th, 2009 by Jay

Are the Utah Jazz headed for a lottery pick?

Isiah Thomas cant even stand himself!

Isiah Thomas can’t even stand himself!

Hopefully not!  At least not this year… Though this season has been disappointing (an understatement!), I’m optimistic the Jazz can eventually get healthy and make a push for at least a playoff spot.  They are however, due the New York Knicks first-round pick most likely next year.  I’ll explain how we got it, and what the complicated protection clauses are.

So first of all, here is how the Jazz ended up with this first-round Knicks pick:

In 2004 Isaiah Thomas traded Howard Eisley, Antonio McDyess, Charlie Ward, a 2004 draft pick, and a future protected draft pick to the Suns for Anfernee (Penny) Hardaway and Stephon Marbury (who is now getting paid to sit behind the bench in a suit).

A month later, the Jazz traded Keon Clark (who?) and Ben Handgloten (also who?) to the Phoenix Suns for Tom Gugliotta and that Knicks first-round pick.  Here are the Protections for that pick:  Protected 2006=top 25, 2007=top 24, 2008=top 23, 2009=top 22. Unprotected in 2010.

Meanwhile, the Jazz owe a first round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers from the Gordan Giricek, Kyle Korver trade.  Here are the protections on that pick:  protected 2009=top 22*, 2010=top 15**, 2011=top17, 2012=top 16, 2013=top 16, 2014=becomes 2014 second round pick plus cash).  But there’s more…

* if Jazz pick (2009) is unprotected to Sixers AND if Jazz receive New York pick in 2009, Sixers have rights to the more favorable of the two picks.

**if Jazz pick (2010) is unprotected to Sixers AND if Jazz receive New York pick in 2010, Sixers will receive the less favorable of the two picks.

  So here are the scenarios:  The 2009 Knicks, while improved, will most assuredly not finish with a record in the top 8 of the League, meaning that they’ll keep the pick this summer.  And the Jazz, with their injuries and struggles, they’re also unlikely to finish in the top 8, keeping their 2009 first round pick.  (It’s believed that the Jazz front office designed the protections on their owed pick to be given away the same year they receive the Knicks unprotected pick in 2010.

What pick then, could the

Jazz end up with in 2010?  With D’Antoni taking over for Isaiah Thomas, the Knicks are much-improved without much talent.  They are a classic D’Antoni team, run-n-gun, throw up a ton of 3’s, and try to outscore their opponents.  They traded several of their better players, and they seem to clearing cap space for 2010 (refer to previous post if you don’t know why).  This could bode well for the Jazz, but if the Knicks keep winning games, it may not be as great a pick as it originally looked with Thomas at the helm!

If the Knicks current position in the standings (20-25, 18th best record) translates to next season, the Jazz would get approximately the 13th pick overall – assuming they didn’t miraculously win the lottery and get a much higher pick.

As discussed before, the Jazz COULD have 7 free agents at the end of this season (Price, Hart, Collins, Millsap, Korver, Okur, and Boozer).  Meaning that it is unknown who will return, what new additions will sign with the Jazz, or what needs the team will have.  So the pick could be extremely important even if it’s not a top-10 pick.  I just hope the Jazz take the necessary steps to get some help for Deron Williams in the meantime (re-signing Millsap for example), so that pick could be a missing piece to a championship team, instead of hoping it can fill a gaping hole they couldn’t fill.

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This entry was posted on Thursday, January 29th, 2009 at 2:38 am and is filed under Jazz News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

20 responses about “Lottery Pick for Jazz? Explaining the Knicks to Jazz Pick”

  1. t-rex said:

    Don’t know id you’ve checked lately, but based on winning percentage the Jazz are currently 10th. An unprotected pick after a top 8 finish doesn’t seem all that unrealistic anymore.

  2. Jay said:

    Oh, true, true. What a winning streak the Jazz have compiled to slide up to 10th. With all of the tough Western Conference contender road games, it looks tough, but I’m actually confident that they can sneak up into the top 4 seeds in the West. That would put them in the top 8 meaning their pick would go to the 76ers. With potentially 7 free agents this summer, that 2009 pick could be important (though picks that late in the draft aren’t often high-impact). I guess more than anything, it all comes down to who the Jazz can keep. Hopefully that would be Boozer, Millsap, Okur, Korver, and Price / maybe Knight also. Then, the loss of the 2009 pick wouldn’t hurt and the 2010 pick could be the Championship piece to the puzzle!! …Better start negotiating and convincing, Kevin O’Connor!!!

  3. S Dickson said:

    wow, interesting point.

  4. Albert said:

    cheers nice post 🙂

  5. Etsitty said:

    Nice blog and thanks for the info!

  6. Maloof said:

    Your blog and the post is a valuable contribution. Thanks and I will take another look later to see how the conversation is going.

  7. Mcnichols said:

    Great blog! You have some real quality information here. I’m usually not one to spend too much time reading blogs but I spent the last two hours here, LoL. Keep up the good work

  8. AndrewBoldman said:

    Great post! Just wanted to let you know you have a new subscriber- me!

  9. Jake said:

    The Knicks are 1-9 this season…fingers crossed, Jazz fans.

  10. Viktor said:

    “A month later, the Jazz traded Keon Clark (who?)”
    Dear Jay, if you don’t know who Keon Clark is then you shouldn’t be writing for an NBA website. How the Jazz decided to give you this prominent (yes, that’s sarcasm) job as an internet sports “blogger” is beyond me. Keyon Clark played a pivotal role for the Raptors and Kings of the early 2000’s, which implies you weren’t following the NBA back then and eradicates your validity for knowledge of this league and sport. Stop writing. Thanks

  11. Jay said:

    Haha ok, Keon Clark’s mother… get off the site. [shaky fist] I meant no disrespect to your son!

    Viktor, I would completely ignore this asinine comment, but I found it too humorous. So in response, I have a few things for you:

    a) This is a Jazz blog, not really an NBA blog. I do not closely follow every player in the NBA, nor do I care to. I love the Jazz, so I follow them closely enough to want to blog about them from time to time. I do not know biographical info, stats, or roles of every player to ever play in the league.

    b) Does the site ever in any way portray that we are employees of the Utah Jazz? No. What makes you think the Jazz gave me this “prominent” job with the organization, rather than this just being another sports fan blog is beyond me! It kind of undermines your intelligence and ability to be able to pick up on things.

    c) Another thing that undermines your intelligence and ability to deduce things is that you actually think I’m trying to talk crap about Keon Clark with my “who?” comment. If you had read the entire article and had any semblance of reasoning skills, you would’ve known that the “who?” was meant more as a sarcastic comment driving home the point of what a steal the draft pick should turn out to be. Keon Clark played only 2 games with the Jazz and then basically got kicked out of the league for off-the-court behavior. The Jazz traded this burn-out for a pick which should end up being at least top-5, and COULD help them finally achieve a championship. I would say in this manner, to the Jazz, Keon Clark could easily be described as a nobody. The Jazz get a potential top 5 draft pick, and one of the only things they gave up was a player who couldn’t last more than 5 years in the league in Keon Clark. WHO?

    d) This article is about the Jazz and the draft pick they receive from the Knicks this summer. It is NOT about Keon Clark or any other players. If the article was about Keon, I would have researched him so I could attempt to be as thorough as possible with information pertinent to the topic in my writing. Since the article is about explaining HOW the Jazz ended up with the pick from the Knicks, the role that Keon Clark played with the Raptors and Kings in the early 2000’s before he even played for the Jazz is NOT relevant information.

    e) This is an independent OPINION sports-blog website. Nowhere do I claim to be 100% correct and accurate at all times. And since I’m not employed by the Jazz or NBA, I can say anything that I possibly want to! Whether it’s correct or not; nice or disrespectful.

    f) The last thing that undermines YOUR validity and credibility: Whereas I could assume it’s just a typing error, I’m not going to take the high road or give you the benefit of the doubt, and rather believe the error is due to your inability to think and write. You spelled Keon’s name as “Keyon” the second time. OOPS! Heaven forbid somebody not be 100% accurate about anything and everything at all times. I’d better publicly rip you apart for it!

    g) If you really are Keon’s mother, then I’m sorry. I didn’t mean anything derogatory towards your son. If you’re not Keon’s mother, I feel sorry for you. You possess such negativity and hostility. And you must have been SO utterly offended by this that you just HAD to take the time to comment about it. Hope you got some satisfaction out of it – because I am NOT sorry for my “error”, I’m NOT going to fix it, and I’m NOT going to stop writing. Thanks though.

  12. Roger said:

    After reading both comments, I have to agree 100% with Jay on this one. Viktor, nice spelling throughout your comment. ha ha ha!!! Especially, (as pointed out by Jay) you spelling Keon incorrectly exactly one sentence after spelling it correctly. ha ha! Isn’t the point of setting up a blog to share your OPINION with the internet world? Jay has the RIGHT to say whatever he wants, even though if you actually READ the post he wasn’t being offensive at all. Nice try though Victor… oh I mean Viktor.

  13. ok alright said:

    Yeah viktor you got raped by jays reply dont even try n make a comeback. But wow man im about to crap my pants. Jazz are my favorite team since back in the day (I do remember ben hendgloten lmfao) and the knicks suck so bad this year. John Wall anybody??

  14. Jay said:

    Haha thanks! While John Wall sounds like he should be a beast of a prospect, I’m a little surprised you would want the Jazz to select him. The Jazz have one of the top 3 (in my opinion) PG’s in the league in D-Will, and they drafted a very solid backup PG in Eric Maynor last year, while they still have Ronnie Price – whose hustle, defense, athleticism, and amusing dunks make him a fan favorite even though he’s not the best.

    Ben and I have been discussing who we’d like the Jazz to get. And we both agree that somebody like a Derrick Favors or Ed Davis would give us a talented, athletic, dominant, defensive big man the Jazz have sorely lacked for so long. Or it would also be nice to add a Dwyane Wade/Carmelo Anthony/Brandon Roy/Kobe Bryant type SF/SG who can become so good at creating their own shots, knocking down shot after shot, capable of scoring huge points. That way if D-Will and Okur and other shooters are having an off night, they’ve got somebody who can easily take over games. The Jazz have never really had a superstar talent like that – I think it would be exciting – though it should be noted the Jazz play more of a team game than letting one superstar try and win it by himself. Evan Turner of Ohio State is a 6’7″ SG who’s running the point and putting up HUGE numbers so far as a Junior. He’s averaging about 20 PPG, 13 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 BPG, and 2 SPG. SICK stats.

    Ben and I both agree that the dominating big man would be the best choice because D-Will is talented enough to do most of the things I listed under a potential SF/SG position, and adding a dominant, defensive post player like a Dwight Howard, or Amare Stoudemire would make the Jazz nearly unstoppable.

    If you read this, I would enjoy hearing why you’d like John Wall. Would you start him at the 2 along with D-Will?

    Either way, I am LOVING the excitement of trying to follow all of the prospects, and seeing who I’d LOVE to have, who might turn out great, etc. The pick SHOULD, I pray, turn out to be at LEAST a top 5 pick, probably a top 3 pick, and maybe, just maybe, THE top pick. 🙂


    Counting down the days til the May 18 NBA lottery!

  15. Jay said:

    Just found this quote of interest from the Salt Lake Tribune:

    Even if the Knicks finish with the worst record, the Jazz would have just a 25 percent chance of coming away with the top pick from the draft lottery. Still, Williams was asked Sunday if he thought he could play with Wall.

    “I think so,” Williams said. “I can play with anybody.”

    Even another point guard?

    “He’s a scorer, though,” Williams answered. “He’s athletic, very athletic, freakishly athletic. I can play with anybody.”

  16. Introducing the 2009-2010 All-OTN Team said:

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  17. Something to think about said:

    The Jazz recently traded one our favorite players for essentially nothing. Brewer to Memphis for a future first round pick (as early as 2011). Yes we’ve cleared some tax dollars and the Jazz have made some bad decisions in the past (Ostertag). However, they’ve been making some really good moves in the past 5 years. Most notably trading up to draft D-Will. Now the Jazz are sitting on a lottery pick from the Knicks and recently collected an additional future first round pick. Are the Jazz positioning themselves to trade up in this years draft? And if so, who are they looking at? Whoever it is must be worth a lottery pick + Brewer and possibly more.

  18. Jay said:

    Well, currently the Knicks have the 6th worst record in the league. Lottery, and odds aside, that would give us the 6th pick. I have been trying to follow as closely as I can all of the prospects I would hope the Jazz could take and HOPE they turn out to be a GREAT pick (many times lottery picks are hit or miss success-wise). I have been tracking stats and such of such players as Derrick Favors, Wesley Johnson, Evan Turner, Xavier Henry, Larry Sanders, Ed Davis, the dude from Wake Forest with the long name I can’t remember or spell. Anyways, at this point it’s just TOUGH trying to see who’s going to be a huge success in the NBA. There doesn’t seem to be a Kobe Bryant, or Carmelo Anthony [meaning big name, surefire star] in this draft aside from John Wall.

    The 2 players I hope most for are probably Evan Turner or Derrick Favors, while some of the others I’d be happy with, but have to PRAY they turn into our savior. Favors is only a Freshman, and he’s garnering comparisons to Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire. Yeah, I’d take that! Evan Turner is a well-rounded beast! He can score, pass, rebound, do almost ANYthing, which I think would make him a GREAT addition into the Jerry Sloan, Utah Jazz system. However, both of these prospects are projected to go #2 and #3. So unless the Knicks lose every game the rest of the season, or we get lucky and win one of the top 3 spots in the lottery, they’d be gone by our pick.

    So I obviously don’t know who the Jazz management would be targeting, but maybe the extra 1st round pick COULD be additional ammo to move up a spot or 2 to nab one of these guys, I have no idea. I do know, however that it’s just another reason why the Brewer trade works for the Jazz, in addition to: *tangent on Brewer trade* Saving several million in salary and luxury-tax; clearing the wing spot for more minutes for Wes Matthews, CJ Miles, and AK; saving us from losing Brewer for NOTHING in but a few months in free agency, since he and the Jazz were apparently nowhere close in negotiations; and getting said draft pick which could/should end up being around the same area we drafted Brewer.

    I loved Brewer, he was one of the guys that brought it every night! He provided hustle, defense, steals, energy, athleticism, dunks, etc. But he was a shooting guard that COULDN’T SHOOT! Kobe Bryant didn’t even bother to guard him in last year’s playoffs, hurting the Jazz when D-will and Boozer were bothered by the Lakers’ length, Brewer, among others couldn’t make a shot. Getting SOMEthing for him before he leaves is a nice move. Similar to Boozer’s situation, getting something before he walks is ideal, but nobody would bite, and with the play of Matthews, and AK, and occasionally Miles, Brewer was more expendable than Boozer right now. People doubt that the Jazz can find a talent equal to, or greater than Brewer with the first round pick. No offense to Brewer, but ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Only 3 players on the Jazz roster were 1st round picks!!! Matthews was UNDRAFTED! Boozer, Okur, Miles, Millsap, etc. were all 2nd round picks! Dejuan Blair from this year – 2nd round pick. Talent CAN be found. I don’t see the Grizz being a top 8 team in the next few years. Needless to say, he was a class act, and good player, and he WILL be missed; just hopefully not for too long. *End Brewer rant*

    So might they package the Grizz pick to move up? It’s a possibility. It just gives the Jazz the ability to have some options to go for it all and finally get us a Championship!!! Time will tell.

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